Hard Talk On Strays

aNt's aNgle:


Hi all, here's a message I got from Shalinee Fernandez on my Facebook regarding my interview with BFM recently. 
I thought it would be useful to publish it here to explain some of my work with the local councils and what we are trying to do to help animals, particulary dogs in our society.
Please feel free to comment. Remember, polite responses only but you are free to disagree.

Here is Fernandez's comment (My response is immediately after): 

Shalinee FernandezStray Dog Interview with MBPJ, MPK and Anthony SB Thanasayan

Hi Anthony. I have just had a chance to listen in to this radio show and I would like to pose a few questions as well as map out certain proposals :-

1) You mentioned during the show that part of this Project was to get the voices of all NGOs at hand and transmit these views to the Local Councils. I believe TRNM was one of the major proposals set forth.Is this therefore also being considered regardless of your own personal views as to the effectiveness etc?

Anthony Siva Balan Thanasayan

Hi Shalinee, wow, that's a lot to answer. I'll try my best but be a succinct as I possibly can. But please, I need you to understand that the centralised pound is still under planning state so I will not be able to answer some of your questions at this point of time. 

I also am not an official representative of the Selangor government, so you will need those questions directly to Dr Xavier formally.

Regarding TNRM, I do not have the authority to execute TNRM or stop it, if that is what you meant. 

My job is only to advise on the pros and cons of it. It's interesting that you mention "your personal views on TNRM" Actually it is not my personal views at all but rather on the facts that there is no scientific evidence that it works. 

At best it is highly controversial. You can find this out all by yourself on the Internet. 

Better still visit PETA's website where the organisation clearly debunks all the so-called good theories of TNR. By the way, it is most interesting that NGOs that propound it, cleverly leave out these detalis.

The government cannot work on people's claims or hunches on a few dogs. If NGOs are adamant about it, then the onus is up to them to bring up their "facts" to the government and let experts verify their claims.

It was such a pity that when Dr Xavier asked a group of animal NGOs about their proof that TNRM works by even offering to visit the so-called "colonies", they just snapped back at him and accused him of trying to get details from them so that the government can round the strays all up. What a golden opportunity lost.

2) En. Zulkifli mentioned that councils have made certain improvements with regards to the methods employed in catching the strays such as rubber coated loops etc. One would think that this should have been the basics of how strays should be caught and not to be classified as an improvement of sorts. the same goes for a existence of pounds as opposed to a trucks in which these animals were kept in prior to this.
 

aNt

Re basics in dogcatching, you are right. This applies for most other things with the government as well, as far as I can tell. 

We must be able to separate reality from ideals. Well established animal groups have been fighting for all these basic rights since the start of Merdeka. 

But at least in the past three years, the changes have been phenomenal compared to then. 

Working with Zulkifli Abbas has been a wonderful privilege for me. 

The man is no doubt an animal lover at heart but with a heavy responsibility to answer the demands of a largely not so sympathetic group of citizens when it comes to strays. He is the real success behind CAT, if you ask me. 

3) I was rather surprised if not shocked to discover that all this while there has been no budget allocated re the handling of strays. Which is very disheartening as these can only come from top down. Nevertheless the fact that a budget of sorts has been obtained is definitely a step forward..but managing the budget in the most effective way possible is another matter altogether.
 

aNt

Shocked that no budget for strays, animal food in local councils Shalinee? That's why its good for animal NGOs to try and get to know local councils before they judge them. 

This is probably true for all 149 local councils in the country. 

Please try and understand that local councils called PBTs are not in the business of creating shelters for animals. 

Their job is really to get rid of them. Dogs are considered pests just like rats and mosquitoes and that's what CAT is trying to change. 

Now because of CAT MPK, they thankfully have a budget. I am made to understand that you have a legal background. 

If true, you know who to blame for that don't you? The lawmakers - not the local councils.

4) You had mentioned that the present proposal for a centralised pound was put forth by many NGOs. Could you please let us know which NGOs had propogated for this centralised pound?
 

aNt

‎

Centralised pound was put forward by SPCA Selangor, Msia Kennel Association, Bivai Special Dogs (that's my organisation), PAWS, MNAWF, vet association etc. 

I believe you know Sabrina Yeap, formerly of SPCA. If you do, you can call her to verify this. Or better still, Christine Chin of SPCA. Syabas to them all that their dream is finally happening!

5) Also in the show it was mentioned that the strays which were caught prior to this were put to sleep (PTS) on the same day. And the strays caught from hereon would be kept for seven (7) days after which they will be PTS. I am Anti-Euthanasia but for the sake of discussion do you think that 7 days is a reasonable time for any animal to get adopted? (whilst I am aware of the local council by laws etc). You mentioned that this new pound would give these animals a chance to live. However the time to "live" so to speak is within 7 days? I do not think that this is an improved situation from the present scenario. And if an amount to the tune of RM5Million is going to be invested, I think a better alternative can be arrived at.
 

aNt

Personally, from an animal activist point of view, I don't think that one week is long enough to euthanise dogs at the pound. 

Again, animal NGOs in th past had pushed for at least two weeks. But nothing came out of that. 

As you pointed out, 7 days it is by law and PBTs are only following the dictates of the law which is another reason why it is most unfair to blame them for that. 

Having said that, from the point of view of PBTs, 7 days is long enough for them to keep unwanted animals so that their pound does not suffer from overcrowding, which will be animal abuse. 

Shalinee, you must also accept the fact that strays are unwanted compared to pedigrees. Even some of the pedigrees get put down after the owners attraction of them dissipates. 

NGOs in all fairness cannot take them and councils cannot be expected to look after them forever as taxpayers will not be happy. 

NGOs have also to be blamed for not educating the public to love animals. 

The centralised pound will be the best yet means to give animals the best chance because it will be done right - following Singapore's example. 

Sorry that you feel that the money is a waste. 

But many other NGOs and public feel that it is the best way under the circumstances. For councils that don't have pounds of their own, they will have no excuse to kill dogs on the same day of their capture.

6) You had also mentioned that euthanasia is a better alternative as opposed to letting a dog "suffer". 

Therefore who decides whether a dog is "suffering" or not? 

What about healthy dogs that have a good chance at living but having their lives cut short by such unreasonable timelines?
 

aNt

Shalinee, the ethical question of who decides on life doesn't only affect dogs but humans in other circumstances as well. 

It is never an easy decision. Families with loved ones on life support have difficult decisions to decide on aftercare and caring for the terminally ill and so forth. 

Holland already has euthanasia for human beings whilst other countries are pushing for it. 

But let us not compare human life with animals. The fact is we are dealing with animals that nobody wants. 

Who is going to pay for it? What about caring for and feeding them? What about overpopulation and disease? 

What about a situation if the culling of strays because of a new disease might call for the culling of pet dogs too as in the bird flu recently that affected performing birds in a popular sanctuary? 

Let's get real, shall we? If NGOs insist, then stop barking at local councils - take the demonstrations to parliament instead and ask them to change laws so PBTs have to follow them! 

Ask any adoption programme and they will tell you how difficult it is to rehome strays. Of course one or two groups may disagree and crow about their "successes" but who are they kidding?

7) Whilst a centralised pound may curb the existing strays at this present moment, what about the future problems? Isn't having the pound as well as carrying TRNM together a more effective way of dealing with this problem? Otherwise this would just be an exercise in futility and needless to say a vicious cycle whereby the production of strays would never end. How would you propose to deal with this issue?

aNt

Several local councils are in the process of having a centralised spay clinic for residents to spay their animals. Re TNRM, I've already said, it doesn't work.

8) I also understand that this new committee set up would be run by the government and would take in advise from amongst others, NGOs. By virtue of being an NGO does that directly confer a right to that particular NGO to tender its advise or are there appointment procedures and also what is the weight that is attached to the advise of a particular NGO?
 

aNt

Your question is not clear about NGO. But let me say this that all NGOs can have a say but it is the government that decides what to do at the end of the day based on the advice given. 

9) I disagree with your comparison of a dengue mosquito/rodent to that of a dog."Its either them or me". Are these stray dogs posing a direct immediate threat to your life? I wouldn't be inclined to think so thus I feel the comparison employed is rather extreme.
 

aNt

OK for you to disagree with me but it doesn't change the fact that stray dogs and cats, rats and moquitoes and others can be potentially dangerous threats to all of us including our pets. The job of the local council is to control or minimise their populations to avert a potential health disaster.

10) I have witnessed for myself how TNRM has worked in even huger countries like India. When I was there during my last trip I saw hardly any strays and the ones that I saw were actually castrated. The vets in India be it from larger hospitals etc actually do pro-bono work in castrating these strays. My fiancee who is a veterinary surgeon who has worked both in Malaysia and in India has been part of this exercise for years and I think it is not impossible for us to do the same here.
 

11) Also certain NGOs run adoption drives at malls etc simply because they do not have the means nor budgets like local councils. At the end of the day I find that a venue is irrelevant. If a person wants to be cruel to an animal he can do the same to the one he picked up from a shelter as well. i have attended these drives as well and it is no easy feat doing this all the time. Hats off to those who do this for the animals. Talk is cheap and not many can walk the talk, I am sure you agree with me.
 

12) You had mentioned that recognition or awards would be given to pet owners that have an exemplary record with their pets. I do not think that this is necessary as these people do not want recognition of any sort. The mere fact that they do stems from the fact that they truly love and care for their pets. Instead this money would be put to better use to EDUCATE the ones who are in the dark about animal rights who may have a higher probability at abusing them at some point due to lack of awareness etc.
 

aNt

‎Giving residents awards for proper pet responsibility is an important educational tool not only for pet owners everywhere but also for local councils as well. It has nothing to do about personal recognition or glamour. I see this as an important step in having more positive things come out from PBTs. 

13) I would like to end on this note. This not only concerns dogs but all living creatures as a whole. I have heard people calling in and saying things like dogs are a nuisance, legislations on how loud dogs should bark etc. Have we ever as human beings sat down for a moment and pondered about how much a nuisance we have been to all other living creatures on earth? It is always about our quest to make life easier for ourselves. We step in and destroy their habitats and if it becomes inconvenient for us we get them out of the way. Who died and made us all GOD? It is not for us to decide who lives and who dies.

aNt

Wonderful ending note Shalinee. But if we work in local councils, we just can't close our eyes and ears and wish such complaints away. Our job is to act on such complaints. But my question is what have NGOs done about it? Each time they rehome dogs, have they educated pet owners about RPO? Should money only be channelled to rescuing dogs on a piecemeal basis? What about educating the public about all the things you've pointed out? Don't expect local councils to do that for now. After all, as animal lovers, we are the enlightened ones, aren't we? 

Thank you, aNt

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